Based on your readings in Chaucer's The Canterbury Tales and our discussions in class, explain your answer to the above question using personal commentary, text references, and references to dicussion in class. Please use your school gmail account to post. Once you have responded to this question, go back and read through your peer's posts. Comment on at least two of your peer's comments. Be professional in your personal commentary, you will receive 5 points for your comment, and an additional 5 points for each response made to a peer. Total 15 points
* You must set up your own google account to post. Please create a student google account that has a username that is recognizable. I suggest you use first name and last letter initial and a number that is important to you, or first initial and last name and a number that is important to you. I would not use both names in my username for security reasons. Use this account for student/professional reasons. We will be using our google accounts throughout the year.
Grading:
5 Points = Thoughtful, Unique, Professional, and Ellaborates using personal commentary,text and discussion from class
4 Points= Thoughtful, Mostly Unique, Professional, and Mostly Ellaborates using personal commentary, text and discussion from class
3 Points= Mostly Thoughtful, Professional, and Somewhat Ellaborates using personal commentary, text and discussion from class
2 Points= Professional and Ellaborates using personal commentary and either text and class discussion references
1 Point= Professional and Ellaborates using personal commentary
0 Points = Lacks professionalism
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ReplyDeleteI do not think The Canterbury Tales by Geoffrey Chaucer should be read by teens because of the way the book portrays women. In the Miller’s Tale, Chaucer says, “Jealous he was and kept her in the cage” (89). This quote shows that the man has control over his wife. After years of trying to get women the same rights as men, it would be a step backwards to think this way. Women should be portrayed as equal to men in books that teens read to send them the message that men and women are equal. Also in the Miller’s Tale, Chaucer describes Alison as pretty. He mostly states traits of Alison that have to do with her beauty. Chaucer says “Her body slender” and “her complexion had a brighter tint” (90). Because Alison is only portrayed by what she looks like, it shows that women are only judged by what they look like. Women are shown that they are just there to look pretty and not make any contributions to society. During class, everyone had to state how Chaucer described Alison. Everyone used physical details or details having to do with her lustfulness. Almost all of the other characters in The Canterbury Tales have personality traits, but Alison didn’t. No one noticed that Alison was just described by what she looked like. In conclusion, The Canterbury Tales should not be read by teens because it portrays women in a negative light. Women in The Canterbury Tales represent how women were shown in the past, but teens should read books that show how women are equal to men.
ReplyDeleteI believe that the Canterbury Tales is a debatable book to read in schools.
ReplyDeleteIn the book there are many teaching devices that teachers can use to help portray an idea. Such as what we are learning now, character details. Chaucer uses a lot of character details in his stories. The character details that Chaucer uses are not always on the surface either, students have to be able to think about the story they are reading to be able to understand the language and details that Chaucer is using. Also, along with the character details, Chaucer uses the details to foreshadow what is going to happen later in the story. For instance, in the "Cook's Tale" Chaucer states, "And no apprentice had a touch so nice,/As Peter when it came to rolling dice." By this we can tell that the prentice is a gambler and also that in the future he will get caugh for it by his master. By reading the Canterbury Tales, students learn how to read under the surface and gain knowledge by learning how to find character details and use those details to foreshadow what is going to happen in the future.
In contrast, I also believe that the Canterbury Tales might not be the best book to portray these aspects of reading. The stories that Chaucer teals are raunchy and sometimes very disturbing and inappropriate for students, even our age, to be reading. I believe that there are many other books published that can portray the aspects of character details and foreshadowing just as well as Chaucer does in his books without the disturbing stories that he tells. For example, in the "Miller's Tale", Chaucer writes, "And back he started. Something was amiss;/ he knew quite well a woman has no beard,/ Yet something rough and hairy had appeared." Not only in this tale but in many of the other tales by Chaucer, he ends up dooming the characters with some sort of disturbing, unnecessary thought that could be portrayed many other ways.
All in all, I believe there are good things and bad things about the Canterbury Tales.
In my opinion The Canterbury Tales by Geoffrey Chaucer is a good book for teens to read.His tales are very timeless and still relevant today because, if you think about it, the themes and morals of the story still occurs today, though it might occur in a more subtle way. For example, in the Cook's Tale, the Prentice is described as someone that "Whenever any pageant or procession/ Came down Cheapside goodbye to his profession!" This shows how the Prentice is uncommitted to his job and how irresponsible he is. While reading the Cook's Tale, it really reminded me of how sometimes adults perceive teens' behaviors today are. SOME (not all) think that teens have it the easy way today and how we are so lazy and irresponsible. I think Chaucer's strategy of using specific details makes his tales very relevant and timeless because those characteristics will always be part of human flaws. I like how he stresses the fact that no one can be perfect.
ReplyDeleteEven though I think that the Canterbury Tales is a good book for teens to read, I do get how some people think it shouldn't be read because of the way Chaucer chooses to write his stories. We are not ignorant to the fact that his tales are raunchy and vulgar at many times.However, just like how Mrs. Teuber explained, the time that the book was written was during a time were people are just very opinionated and vocal, and they were not afraid to talk about their thoughts however dirty they may be. Also, he uses this strategy to catch the people's interest. We had a class discussion about who will either read a very clean story or a scandalous story. We know that making the story vulgar and scandalous captures our attention more.
There are really a lot of pros and cons for teens to read The Canterbury Tales, however, I think the key to this is the maturity of those who are reading the book.
I do think that teens should read The Canterbury Tales. While the stories to tend to be on the raunchy side this is only on the surface each of the tales that we read were in some way “dirty”. Such as The Wife of Bath while her prologue does not go into detail of what she does with each of her five husbands she does make a good point that while it is highly recommend by Apostle Paul to enter a marriage “purely” or with their virginity intact, it is not commandment. This could be understood in many ways, I see the obvious defiance of religion and morals and that could influence the teens, which read this book. But on the opposite side as we grow up writings with these raunchy stories will become more common and we must learn that this is not what the story is about. With the Wife of Baths example I interpret this as a way to break the social norms and to examine what those around you believe and how you adapt that to your own personal needs
ReplyDeleteFurthermore, Chaucer’s writing is a classic and there are many things to learn from writing of different time periods. With our project to write a prologue and tale of our own I have a greater appreciation of Chaucer’s work and through that assignment and readings I have enriched my writing and knowledge as I am sure others have done because of reading The Canterbury Tales.
My opinion towards whether or not teens should read the Canterbury Tales is mixed. By that, I mean I think they should and shouldn’t read it. I don’t believe they should read it because the context is very raunchy and inappropriate for school. Most classes don’t talk about those topics for a reason; they send off positive messages about wrong morals. The tales are constantly talking about people who enjoy having affairs and marrying people half or twice their age. For example, in the Miller’s Tale, it says that Allison “…certainly she had a lecherous eye” (90). Another example of how the book sends the wrong message comes from the Merchant’s Tale. The main character is a knight that is about 60 years of age who has never been married. He gathers his friends and tells him he has decided he wants to get married but “The woman must on no account be old, / Certainly under twenty…” (361). If they don’t read the Canterbury Tales, they won’t be missing very much in the plot department.
ReplyDeleteHowever, as we discussed one day during class, the Canterbury Tales do provide a more rhythmic and poetic English compared to the one we speak today. The words and phrases are rearranged so that they flow into the next line and aren’t choppy. For example, in the general Prologue, we are told that the Manciple, “In buying victuals; he was never rash / Whether he bought on credit or paid cash” (18). That sentence sounds better than, “The Manciple isn’t hasty when he buys his food whether he pays in cash or puts it on credit,” which is what the quote from the book is basically saying. Also, by reading the tales, teens’ vocabulary is increased. There are words mentioned in the book that we typically don’t use in everyday life. The Canterbury Tales exposes teens to those words thus expanding their knowledge. Some of the many uncommon words are “sanguine” (12), “ribald” (362), and “sapience” (363). The reasons stated previously are why I believe and disbelieve teens should read the Canterbury Tales.
Jean:
ReplyDeleteI agree with everything Jean had to say in her arguement. She is very correct when she says that, "...they send off positive messages about wrong morals." This is completely correct. In the book Chaucer send messages to teens that they will catch onto, such as sexual contact and inapproiate language. I also agree with what Jean said about the language that is used throughout the book. The words that are used are very uncommon like Jean said, and without the stories that he tells we probably wouldn't have ever encountered the words that he uses. Another point that Jean brought up that I never thought about with the flow of the stories. I never thought about his works just in the writing portion, I always thought of it as the details or the words. What Jean said about the work flowing is completely correct.
Kristine: Although, I don’t think that The Canterbury Tales sends only positive messages to teenagers, I do agree with what Kristine said because the morals in The Canterbury Tales can affect teenagers today and the best way to catch their attention is to use stories they will be interested when. In class, everyone was asked whether they would read a story about a boring nun or a story like those in The Canterbury Tales. Almost no one picked the story about the nun because they are more interested in reading The Canterbury Tales for its raunchy tales. A moral that teenagers could benefit from learning is shown in the Pardoner’s prologue and tale. In the prologue Chaucer writes, “Radix malorum est cupiditas” or greed is the root of all evil. Then in the Pardoner’s Tale, characters become greedy and die because of it. This tale shows that nothing good can come of greed. Teenagers will be working later in their life and it is important for them to learn that being greedy will only hurt you in the end. This moral could help teenagers later in life.
ReplyDeleteI believe that only mature students should read The Canterbury Tales book.
ReplyDeleteThere are many dirty details in the book and some people would take it the wrong way.
I don’t think that the book was created just for people to laugh and giggle about; it was to show how people lived life so freely and carelessly and how people would do anything to get what they want.
Take the Pardoner’s tale, it shows how people would do anything for money. In the end, they all killed each other and went behind one another’s back: “for this young man was utterly content/ to kill them both and never to repent”
In the Miller’s Tale, it told of how Nicholas could easily get any girl he wanted and how careless he was of the consequences of sleeping with Alison and how Alison made Absalon kiss her butt was very immature.
The character’s actions were irresponsible and stupid and this book was written not to laugh about them but to show how irresponsible actions lead to even worse consequences.
I think that the Canterbury Tales should be able to be read by teens. I think this because we are, or should, be mature enough to read the graphic nature of the book. For example, in the Miller’s Tale when Absalon kisses Alison’s bum, “Put up his mouth and kissed her naked arse” (Pg. 103). This is disgusting, but I think we are all old enough to handle it. Also this story has morals that we all could learn from. Using the example that I used earlier when Absalon kisses Alison’s bum, Absalon had fallen into the trap of seduction and temptation, so he was punished for doing so. It was a very crude way of showing that there can be horrible repercussions for our actions. This book just has a very explicit way of showing such consequences. Lastly I think this book is acceptable to be read by teens because it deals with problems that teens deal with. Using my example again of Absalon and Alison, teens often put themselves in awkward situations. Teens currently think it is alright to give into temptation and let loose, but they don’t realize that it could negatively affect their lives. This shows that if you give into temptation that it could hurt you in the long run.
ReplyDeleteI think the book The Canterbury Tales by Geoffery Chaucer is a book that should be read based on a teacher's individual thoughts. Some teachers like introducing students to the old English way of writing. I personally would not choose to read this book in class. The writing is too difficult to comprehend. For example this phrase, "Many a load of dung one time or other" (pg. 17). Understanding the words may be simple but overall understanding what the author is trying to say may be difficult to readers. The concept of the book being raunchy, in my opinion, is not a big issue. Each tale has a meaning and I believe there is a purpose for the dirty stories so they are not in there for pure entertainment. Even though we have discussed in class how stories that have these dirty details are more enjoyable.
ReplyDeleteI think that the Canterbury Tales should and shouldn't be read at times. On the positive side,some of the stories benefit us and show us examples of different things we learn about in class. For example, there are many character traits/ details that are explained very well. Using these character traits we learn about specific details so,it helps us understand the characters more and future characters in different stories because we can use these tools to figure them out. The details basically prepare us to identify more details about more charcters in future tales or stories. One of the negative things that the book does is use profanity and refer to sexual acts. It is inappropriate to use these kinds of details in stories and can have a bad effect on kids. Some of these negative things are made to seem funny and because of this i think the book glorifies bad behavior like swearing. So the the story can have a positive and negative effect on teens. It teaches them about good things such as character details but also bad things such as profanity and other negative stuff. all in all, i still think the teens should be allowed to read The Canterbury Tales.
ReplyDeleteSarah: I don’t agree with all of the things Chaucer implies in The Canterbury Tales, but there are some things you can learn from his work. Therefore, I agree with Sarah about how Chaucer uses specific details in his work. In the general prologue Chaucer writes, “Feared like the plague he was, by those beneath”(19). We learned that through these details we can read for on the surface things. . In class we talked about The Cook’s Tale. We learned that when Chaucer says, “Brown as a berry” on the surface it means that he is tan. But, below the surface it means that he doesn’t do his work because he plays outside all day and therefore is tan. The details in Chaucer’s work can help us look for on the surface things in books and help us write details in our own work.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI think that teens should be able to read The Canterbury Tales. Chaucer places his characters in situations where they eventually recieve punishment for their wrong doing, and it can teach a lesson to the reader. For example, in "The Miller's Tale", the wife is punished for cheating on her husband. Also, as Chaucer shows you lessons at the end of the tale, he also incorporates a lot of humor, which teens might even like. Sometimes his humor may be raunchy and innapropriate, but these are things that we're exposed to in our everyday lives, so I don't think that we should be too worried about that.
ReplyDeleteAlthough this is a good book to read, I'm not sure if teens would like to try to find the hidden meaning in the tales that Chaucer writes. A lot of people just read things on the surface, and I don't know if everyone would understand what Chaucer was really trying to say in his stories. Nevertheless, this is a great book for teens who like to dig deeper into a books meaning, and, with the added humor, I think that teens would enjoy reading this book.
Tatiana.
(Ignore my removed comment.)
Monika: I really agree with you. Sometimes there were things that Chaucer would write that I would have to read a few times to understand. But, some people really like reading old English, so I guess it depends on the reader. Also, the raunchiness doesn't affect me as much because Chaucer incorporated that to really give the tale its meaning. Although I don't really like old English books, I still think that this is a good books for teens to read... If they want to.
ReplyDeleteTo Becky, I have to disagree with you. I don’t believe that Chaucer was trying to discriminate women. I think he just described Alison with “Her body slender” because it showed why her husband was always so jealous and clingy, because since she was so gorgeous, he didn’t want to let her get away. This also shows why Absalon and Nicholas were always after her. So it’s not that Chaucer is dumbing down women, he’s just describing them as seductresses.
ReplyDeleteKristine, I agree with you. I think that the morals of this story still apply to today. The tales can be used today because we face what many people faced back then. I also liked the example you used because it shows that people were lazy back then, and they are today. I also agree with what you have to say because Chaucer has a good way of showing us that nobody is perfect and we all have things that we need to work on. Such as how people think teens are irrisponsible, which is, unfortunately, true.
ReplyDeleteMonika:
ReplyDeleteI do agree with what Monika had to say in her response. I understand where she is coming from when she says, "...The Canterbury Tales...is a book that should be read based on a teacher's individual thoughts." Each teacher has a different way of comprehending and being able to explain what is happening throughout the tales. I also think that the individual students who read it should also be taken into consideration. As Monika said, "The writing is too difficult to understand." It would be even more so if the students haven't been exposed to much old English.
I also agree when she wrote "Each tale has a meaning" and "there is a purpose for the dirty stories..." I think that Chaucer was tryiing to convey life back then in a way more interesting to most people. However I disagree when you said, "...they are not in there for pure enjoyment." After discussing who Chaucer was during class, I think he wrote some of these for his own enjoyment.
I am in between in thinking whether or not Canterbury Tales should be read in school. I think that Canterbury Tales should not be read in school because the material is raunchy. It is not something we have never seen before, however we do not need to be reading it in school. There are sexual innuendoes, discussion of bottoms, and farts. This is material that does not need to be seen in school. The old English also makes it more difficult to understand and comprehend what Chaucer means by his writing. I also believer that it should be read in school because it is a good idea to show students stories with morals. The morals are still relevant today and that is why it should be read. I believe that Canterbury Tales has pros and cons to being read in school.
ReplyDeleteMonika, I agree with you that the teacher should choose. Many students have commented that they believe the reading of Canterbury Tales is good and bad. Depending on the teacher's opinion, they should decide whether or not to read the book. We have all stated our reasons we believe this decision coud go either way and the teacher should decide.
ReplyDeletemonika: I agree that the decision to read the book should be made by the teacher. Not only that they would like to teach about the old English way of writing ,but the decision on whether it is inappropriate to read in class. I also understand how you explain that each tale has a meaning and there is a purpose of these stories of being dirty. I also agree that it is hard to understand parts of the book due to the language and I would also choose to not read this book just because of how frustrating it can get.
ReplyDeletetatiana: I see how the characters are placed in situations and sometimes punished for their decisions. This can definetly teach the readers a lesson and I think when a book teaches you something, it is a good book. Even though some of these lessons can be bad ones. I also agree that Chaucer incorporates a lot of humor in his stories. Teens love to laugh and would enjoy some of these funny moments. I believe that teens just read on the surface and don't really understand these funny parts , therefore they wouldn't enjoy the book. But if teens clearly understood what was going on in the stories then they would enjoy it.
ReplyDeleteZenoviy: I like how you added that these tales do teach readers things, such as character details and specific details. Old English books like The Canterbury Tales are helpful to learn different techniques of writing, which is useful when we write our own essays. Readers that understand the text and look into it really do get a lot out of it. These types of books should be read only if they are taken seriously and read carefully.
ReplyDeleteI think the Canterbury tales is a classic book that should be read in all schools. In his writing, Chaucer uses charcter details and setting details to give the reader a good picture of what is happening, two things high school students need to learn to use in their writings. Like we do in class, students across America should learn about how Chaucer used charectirization and try to apply it too their writings. Some people say the Canterbury Tales are innaproprite and tell morally wrong stories. I disagree with that view, although The Canterbury Tales are sometimes innaproprite, everyone knows about the things that are in the book. Newsweek magazine ranks The Canterbury Tales in their top 100 books all time and as we saw in the olde English video the Canterbury Tales is the essential middle english book. Any book this releevant for wrting skills, and for histroy should be read in all schools. Lastly, The Canterbury Tales should be read because they have funny stories that i hae to admit, amde me laugh. The Canterbury Tales is the kind of book that needs to be read to get students interested in reading. If students cannot read The Canterbury Tales they are losing not only an education opportunity but an entertainment opportunity.
ReplyDeleteJenny,
ReplyDeleteYou said that The Canterbury Tales being written in middle english makes it hard to understand and you listed that as a reason the book should not be read. Although it is difficult to read, it is still easily understandable if you sit down with a dictionary next to you or you utilized the back of the book. The novel being written in middle English is part of its catchet and the little extra difficulty makes it that much more pleasing when you get to your "aha" moment.
I believe that The Canterbury Tales is a debatable book to be read in high schools. There a few aspects of the book that should be considered, as well as the audience that plans on reading it. For example, we are English II Accelerated students reading a controversial book. We can either choose to put it down and simply say I’m not reading this, or we can dig deeper into Chaucer’s words; to see what he’s really trying to show about the men and women in his tales. I also think the book itself is very controversial. When Chaucer was writing, he wanted to show the public how he viewed the world, and also how people really acted. For example, the Pardoner is a high priest in the Catholic Church, yet his actions show differently. Chaucer describes the Pardoner as hypocritical, and also mischievous and deceptive. In his prologue, he says, “For my exclusive purpose is to win/and not to castigate their sin.” (Chaucer 243).
ReplyDeleteIn other words, The Canterbury Tales are all about hypocritical actions, raunchy characters, punishment and suffering that is caused by desire. In class, we all had to discuss the actions of Alison in the Miller’s tale. Having read the tale, we all knew about Alison, and her raunchy behavior, yet we still had to discuss it in order to reach Chaucer’s intended meaning. On the surface Alison is a very pretty, fair young woman. However, she is jealous, deceptive, and downright insulting at times.
In closing, I believe The Canterbury Tales should be read in high schools, but with a different audience and under a different light. Meaning, allow juniors to read the book, and have them reach below the surface to find how Chaucer really describes the character’s actions and thoughts, not just what’s on the surface.
Zenoviy,
ReplyDeleteI agree with you and think you make a very good point when you say Chaucer uses charcter traits and details so wondefully. Chaucer's use of these details is one of the reason his book is such an educating read and a classic. I will say on the other hand though that some of his charcter details get a little too raunchy and could lead to an unpleasent read.
Jake:
ReplyDeleteI disagree with Jake. Although the Canterbury Tales may encourage some student to read, authors are able to portray more exciting things in less disturbing ways. I do not believe that authors have to used the language and tales that Chaucer uses to be able to see things such as character details. Although the tales may be funny to some, they are not approiate for school lessons. I understand that the Canterbury Tales may be one of the all time books in magazine rankings, but it does not say what age group it is ranked for. These tales are approiate for outsdie reading and adults, but not for lessons being taught in the highschool classroom. All in all, I believe what Jake said is argumentable. It may be entertaining to some, yet it is not the best way to show the details.
Tatiana: I agree with you in the sense that teens have a tendency to enjoy humor and raunchy stories, and also how we can learn from the characters’ punishments. Teens are constantly under pressure to do what everyone else wants, and don’t always think about how some things can come back to ruin life even more. I also agree with you when you say that not all teens would understand what is being truly taught, and that reading The Canterbury Tales would teach how to “dig deeper”, so to speak.
ReplyDeleteJean: I agree with basically everything you have said, especially the part where you say, “they send off positive messages about wrong morals.” There are numerous examples throughout the book. Chaucer uses these to develop character, yet he doesn’t think about the message he’s necessarily sending. True, he’s the author and he shouldn’t have to think about that, but since the messages are so strong, we should reconsider reading The Canterbury Tales in schools.
ReplyDeleteTo Tati, I agree with you on why Chaucer wrote The Canterbury Tales. I see how he might have written the tales to teach a lesson, much like fables. He showed that if you do something wrong, like have an affair, will have an equal punishment; what goes around, comes back around. And I liked how you added that it helps the reader to find the hidden meaning of the message, not just shown what the meaning is. But actually think and conclude what Chaucer might have wanted us to understand.
ReplyDeleteSam:
ReplyDeleteI agree with basically everything you said in your response. The audience of who is reading the book definitely needs to be taken into consideration. As you said, as accelerated students we have the choice to continue reading it or just put it down. We knew what was to be expected when we signed up for the class.
You do bring up a good point about it being pretty hypocritical. I've never thought of that in relation to the tales, but now that you mention it, I can find many examples portraying this in The Canterbury Tales.
Upon the issue as to whether or not teens should read The Canterbury Tales, I am somewhat at an in-between. There are plenty of raunchy, "bawdy," and downright unacceptable things in the book to say that, if it were given a ban, it certainly would not lack any merit to the decision. In the Miller’s and Reeve’s tales especially, there are several things that I would not anyone to read. For example, the most despicable scene in all the book I think I read was in the Reeves tale, where it says, “At last she gropes to where the cradle stands,/And so by fumbling upwards with her hands/She found the bed and thinking nought but good,/ Since she was certain where the cradle stood,/ She well and fairly crept in with the clerk,/ Then lay quite still and tried to go to sleep./ John waited for a while, then gave a leap/ And thrust himself on this merry wife./ It was the merriest fit in all her life,/ For John went deep and thrust away like mad./ It was a jolly life for either lad/ Till the third morning cock began to sing.” (116). That’s very bad and graphic, but I use it as evidence in that this book is not one that a person recommends to anyone very lightly.
ReplyDeleteHowever, on a different side of this same coin, there is also the merit that the book contributes to the students' education, by its symbolistic characters and the moral truths that are displayed in many of the stories. For example, in the Pardoner's Tale, the three men go out to defeat Death: “Here, chaps! The three of us together now,/ Hold up your hands, like me, and we’ll be brothers/ In this affair, and each defend the others,/ And we will kill this traitor Death, I say!/ Away with him as he has made away/ With all our friends. God’s dignity! Tonight!” (251.) I believe this was symbolic as well as in a literal sense, in that many men feel that they are immune to morality and that they are greater than the One who created them, that they might live forever. After this in the story, they go out and plot against each other, because of a pot of gold that they found--in the end however, they are all killed because of this treachery, as the Pardoner relates, saying “Trust me, no ghastlier section to transcend/ What these two wretches suffered at their end./ Thus these two murderers received their due,/ So did the treacherous young poisoner too.” (256.) It was their evil desires that killed them So the main moral of the tale shows that Greed, Treachery, and deciet all lead unto death. And the realization of that for us is a good thing I think.
Beyond these things however, I think it also opens peoples' eyes. I will cite the class discussion that we had where someone brought up the question as to why the Pardoner, if he was indeed with the Church of their day(Catholic), then how could he have been such a hypocrite. At first Mrs. Teuber said that because back then we weren't as sophisticated as we are now, that people had lower standards. I said that I disagreed, and said that I thought that throughout time people didn't change very much; that people still thought like the Pardoner in some places, and that just we as a culture don't like to admit or talk about it. And Mrs. Teuber agreed with me, and it looked like a lot of people had never thought about that before--at least that's what their eyes told me.
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ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI think that the debate on whether or not teens should read The Canerbury Tales. Does not really have one simple answer, there will always be disagreement.
ReplyDeleteOn one side of the arguement, you have those who think no, it shouldn't be part of teens curricular. They probably think this because they are most likely just reading what is on the surface. Not paying any attention to the deeper meaning or point that Chaucer is trying to get across. Meaning all they see is the nasty disgusting characters and tales that he talks about. Which make this book so inappropriate for teens and younger children.
Contradictory, the people who are capable of reading something and picking out the deeper meanings or morals of it. Like, let's take an English II Acc. class, they will probably read the tales and realize that he is trying to tell you about life and human beings characteristics. That everything has a consequence and that is exactly the type of literature students in highschool should be reading. Also, Chaucer is a very good writer who knew how to use imagery, irony, and many other literary devices.
Plus, I think even the people who say teens should read it or not, still would read it themmselves. Just because humans seem to be atrract to the nasty, ugly stuff in life. Which I believe was exactly what Chaucer was trying to prove when he wrote these tales.-Aarron
I think Canterbury Tales is a book that teens should read. Even though the stories told in this book are very raunchy they do teach us morals. The stories are told in a very creative way and teenagers are more likely to pay attention to the story and understand the morals taught. Canterbury Tales also demonstrates the difference between how people acted back then and how they act know. It shows how different people acted in their society. Canterbury Tales also helps teach different writing techniques such as specific detail that teenagers can use when writing their own papers. Chaucer uses specific detail to help readers develop a better picture of the characters in the readers mind. For example in the prologue to describe the wife of bath he states, “Bold was her face, and fair, and red of hue.” By reading Canterbury Tales it can help teenagers expand their vocabulary and become more critical readers by reading more in depth.
ReplyDeleteLauren:
ReplyDeleteWhile I do agree with you when you say that "Chaucer’s writing is a classic and there are many things to learn from writing of different time periods", the main body of your argument is somewhat riddled with statements that I do not see any support for in the text or even in the world itself. If you have a specific interpretation, there are two rules in general that one must follow when dealing with a text:
1. Have evidence within the text to support you interpretation.
2. Have a statement that is not contradicted by any other text within the work or passage.
If one does not follow either one or both of these rules, then an interpretation can be seen as invalid. When you said that the Canterbury tales were on the " 'raunchy' " side, and that the very raunchiness of it is "not what the story is about", I agreed with you there.
However, I did not agree with when you said that "only on the surface each of the tales that we read were in some way 'dirty'". That is quite a statement, and one that is directly contradicted by oodles of evidence within the various text. For example, in the Wife of Bath's prologue, it says "I ever followed natural inclination/ Under the power of my constellation/ And was unable to deny, in truth, My chamber of Venus to a likely youth"..."I never used discretion when in love/ But ever followed my appetite,/ Whether the lad was short, long, black or white./ Little I cared, if he was fond of me". Also, in the Reeve's Tale, there is some part where it says, "Then lay quite still and tried to go to sleep./ John waited for a while, then gave a leap/ And thrust himself on this merry wife./ It was the merriest fit in all her life,/ For John went deep and thrust away like mad./ It was a jolly life for either lad” (116). That's the most graphic thing I could think of. If that isn't dirty I don't know what is.
Concerning the remark you made where you said of the Wife of Bath, that "she does make a good point that while it is highly recommend by Apostle Paul to enter a marriage 'purely' or with their virginity intact, it is not commandment", I feel that you are GREATLY inaccurate. During the middle ages, many people in the Catholic church seem to think that dying a virgin got them some sort of prize (for example, in Romeo and Juliet, Romeo sad because of Rosaline). Hence when the wife of Bath said, "I'll have no quarrel with virginity./ Let them be pure wheat loves of maidenhead/ And let us wives be known for barley-bread"(262), and "Had God commanded maidenhood to all/ Marriage would be condemned beyond recall,/ And certainly if seed were never sown,/ How ever could virginity be grown?"(260) she mentions it. But that's not even the point I am making.
In her prologue, the wife of Bath says, "And where did He command virginity?/ I know as well as you do, never doubt it,/ All the apostle Paul has said about it;"(267) and "It's all mere counsel to virginity"(267.)" It is this point I take issue with--it simply isn't true!
In the Bible, it IS a COMMANDMENT to keep one's self pure until marriage; only there is no prize for being chaste inside of marriage.
In I Corinthians 6:18, written by the very same Apostle Paul, it says,
"Flee fornication. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but the man who commits fornication sins against his own body."
And if that isn't enough, Jesus Christ himself says in Matthew 5:28 that
"...anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." I agree that our writing has been "enriched" by this book, but I felt the need to clear up those points to make sure none were confusing.
Jenny- I agree with what Jenny said about how the morals taught in Canterbury Tales are still relevant today, because we still see similar morals being taught today.. Even though we probably wouldn’t learn those morals in ways similar to the stories in Canterbury Tales, they kind of are the same morals we would learn in ways that fit into our daily lives.
ReplyDeleteJenny: I agree with the part were you state that there is two sides to this whole question. Whether we should be able to read it or not. Also the part where you say that it's not like it's the first time we have ever seen or heard this kind of stuff before.
ReplyDeleteWhat i don't agree with is where you state that the old english makes it hard to comprehend what the author was actually trying to say. I think that since we are in an accel class that means we should research the words you might not know because of the way the language is, especially since we have the internet. If someone was to understand the language better would they be able to figure out the deeper meanings of Chaucer's writings?
Michelle- I agree with what Michelle said on how only mature students should read Canterbury Tales. Since it does contain many raunchy and dirty tales students who can’t handle it may only notice these factors of the stories. Since they are only focusing on these details they won’t get the deeper meaning and they won’t be able to understand what Chaucer was trying to teach through his writing.
ReplyDeleteAs students and even as writers it is important that we learn the concept of specific detail and its impact on writing. Lots of specific detail is used in The Canterbury Tales by Geoffrey Chaucer such as when he states the Cook's prentice is “Brown as a berry.” Through specifc details such as this, readers can make conclusions and even predict what may happen to the character as a result. This is why I believe teens should read it. Chaucer's story also gives an opportunity for teens to decipher the meaning of the old English language. Through deciphering the old English language teens can learn an example of the style of writing for Chaucer's time period. Although, this book can be seen as inappropiate because of "dirty" details.Chaucer is simply through the use of "crude" humor, showing the readers the concept of specific detail.
ReplyDeleteBecky- While I do agree with you that The Canterbury Tales does not portray women in the greatest means, what is said is how women were treated in the past. It is very hard to find a time in history when women were treated as equals, and only recently in our history have women earned the same pay as men for equal jobs. I do believe that the tales should be read by teenagers the best way I can make my point is through this quote by George Santayana"Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it"
ReplyDeleteBrett: I would have to agree with pretty much everything you said. First off, that part in the Reeve's tale, I also thought it was truely gross and disturbing. Which could be a reason why teens should be unable to read this book, especially since that is not the only part in the book that is that revolting. I also quite enojoyed the part where you talk about, why the tales were this bad. Where you say how Mrs. Teuber said they were less sophisticated and then you pretty much said that we just seem to like the nasty stuff.
ReplyDeleteUpon the dispute of teens reading or not reading Canterbury Tales by Geoffrey Chaucer, I think that teens should and shouldn't read it. The reason why I believe this is because in the Canterbury Tales there are plenty raunchy jokes that people might not see appropriate for school. People also might take the jokes in wrong way or people might giggle because they understand it. Chaucer describes things in the book that you really have to take the time to analyze and interpret. This can be really helpful to teachers because that means that students will learn how to think below the surface rather than on the surface. As Mrs. Teuber told us in class it's easy to think on the surface opposed to below the surface. Also Chaucer uses old English which can pose a problem for many teens because it is very difficult to comprehend. Also Chaucer uses setting details and character details in the book. This can be very helpful to teens in the area of writing because it teaches them how to really put the reader into the book making it more interesting to read. Ultimately it really depends on what the teacher believes because if the teacher has a very inappropriate class then I would say no because they wouldn't take it the right way but if the teacher has a sophisticated class that could appreciate the book and use all of the positive things then I would say yes.
ReplyDeleteJake: I completely agree with you. The Cnaterbury Tales is truely a classic novel. In addition having it in middle english provides the reader with a challenge and satisfaction when they decipher the meaning of a passage.
ReplyDeleteMegan:
ReplyDeleteI fully agree with you. The morals in The Canterbury Tales are taught in a very creative way. These tales are more entertaining to young teenagers who have to read the book. I also agree with how this book can expand ones vocabulary. Students can learn many different synonyms from reading a passage in The Canterbury Tales.
Megan: I would have to say that I agree with you one hundred percent because yeah in the book it teaches us morals and at the end of every tale there is a consequence and really gets us thinking. Also Chaucer does use a lot of specific details that really does put you into the story. It also makes the book even more enjoyable to read. I also agree on what you said on how the book teaches us how people acted back then because since the tales were raunchy maybe their personality was raunchy as well.
ReplyDeleteBrett- I do understand what you are saying about my contradiction, and I apologize if I did not explain myself as clearly as I thought. I understand that the stories are "raunchy" and "graphic" but this is only the surface of the story. I was trying to get at the deeper meaning as we have been saying in class. I am sorry I do not understand the bible as in depth as you do, but from what I have learned I do not see the bible as commandment, this is my own personal belief.
ReplyDeleteBecky:
ReplyDeleteWhile I do think that there are things in the Canterbury Tales that merit it not to be read by teens, I do not think that “almost all of the other characters in The Canterbury Tales have personality traits, but Alison didn’t”. Although her beauty did add to them, she was described as having a “lecherous eye,”(90)--which can be translated into a character trait. However, even if Alison had little character description, that does not account for the other female characters in the book which were given character description. The Wife of Bath, her characters, and all of them have various attachments such as “knowing”(264), “unhappy”(268), and “fair and faithful”(291.)
However, even beyond this, even if these were not in line, I do not agree when you say that “The Canterbury Tales should not be read by teens because it portrays women in a negative light. Women in The Canterbury Tales represent how women were shown in the past, but teens should read books that show how women are equal to men.”
The reason for this being is that when you say “teens should read books that show how woman are equal to men” you are describing this very book! Almost none of the other characters in the book, male or female, are without flaw--especially within each tale. Why, the men in this book are horrific! Am I to not read it because of this? This is just what Chaucer has done—he has put both men and woman on an equal state of fallen human condition.
I would go so far as to say that teens SHOULD read this book simply BECAUSE of the way it portrays woman—it seems that many stories and movies like to show (especially today) that woman are not equal to, but superior, to men. In our court system, between a man and a woman who have committed the same crime, the man is often given a much stricter sentence than a woman is. That is how we view people. Four out of five times the villain of a story is a man, not a woman. Do I think that there should be more woman as villains, or that we should go back to the Elizabethan idea? No, not at all. Not even particularly. But I will say that the Canterbury Tales, in contrast with men, is not unkind to women, and so I see no reason to bar it for that specific reason.
Jake: I would have to say that I agree with you because Canterbury Tales is a classic novel that teaches us many things such as how to use character and setting details in a story. I can also say that I agree with you on the fact that it made me laugh as well and people who don't read it will be missing out.
ReplyDeleteJustin: I like how you said that the decision is ultimately up to the teacher. The decision really does depend on the type of students a teacher has. It is right to say a mature class of teens should take the time to experience The Canterbury Tales while an inappropiate class may not be applicable for that same experience.
ReplyDeleteAarron: I agree with you, because a lot of teens really don't try to understand what's on the surface, and if it's for a class they usually just want to get the book over with. But, the raunchy stuff does attract people, like you said. You also said that the Accel kids would understand the deeper meaning of what Chaucer wrote. I don't think that it's just those kids. Anyone can try to get the meaning out of a book if they tried to, but most teens don't want to, which is a problem. So, you can debate as to why and why they shouldn't read it. Although, I think they should.
ReplyDelete-Tatiana
Tati:
ReplyDeleteI do agree with you that they the tales that Chaucer has teaches a lot of lessons to the readers that are still very relevant today (just like I said in my comment). Also, it is true that Chaucer's sometimes raunchy and inappropriate humor is something that most of us,teens, are already exposed to in our everyday lives. I also agree about trying to figure out the below the surface idea of his tales. I think today, most of the books that teens read are pretty straight forward and has less under the surface ideas. In all honesty I don't mind digging a book's deeper meaning, and I think everyone should do that, however I would want to have more time to read it. Especially with The Canterbury Tales, though some words were changed to make it easier for us to understand, it still has a lot of words that are not common to our daily language and looking them up takes time, too.
I think that The Canterbury Tales by Geoffrey Chaucer should be taught in school because even though these tales are considered "raunchy" for school, life outside school walls has no censorship.These tales are more like ways to get a message across to students while still being able to make them laugh. In all these tales we see the characters are punished for their wrong doing and even though this is done in a rather raunchy way,life for the most part isnt all rainbows and unicorns. There is always a bad side to life and bad things happen to people such as getting cheated on. There is always a measure of vengeance exacted on people whether it is direct or inndirect. We can see that in the Reeve's Tale where the Miller (who stole peoples grain) got had by John and Alan. Chaucer is trying to teach the reader a lesson, if not about karma then it's about retribution. He is trying to shape the reader into not becoming like the miller by showing him how bad things happen to bad people.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteOn the topic if teen students should read The Canterbury Tales, I am sort of in the middle.
ReplyDeleteFirst, I do believe it should be banned and not read by teens because the language and stories are raunchy, dirty and very graphic. Most parents would agree that they wouldn’t want their children reading from Chaucer’s dirty mind. As well as, I know that I and probably some other students, don’t want to read about some of the graphic images portrayed through Chaucer’s words. For example in the Reeve’s Tale it says “And thrust himself on this merry wife./ It was the merriest fit in all her life,/ For John went deep and thrust away like mad./ It was a jolly life for either” (116). To me, this was at least an unneeded part of the story, as well as a very vile picture.
On the contrary, Chaucer’s literature is very important to have in a high school curriculum because it teaches students, like us, different aspects of writing. For example specific details. We spent a lot of our class time devoted to this topic and I believe using the story, The Canterbury Tales, helped us a lot in understanding this concept. For instance in The Cooks Tale Chaucer says “Brown as a berry; spruce and short he stood” (120). This shows just one of the many specific details Chaucer uses in his text. Although I know we could use other texts because of the vile pictures and language, I believe The Canterbury Tales has too many good examples to pass up.
In the end, I think The Canterbury Tales has both good and bad qualities to it. Therefore my vote, if teens should read The Canterbury Tales, could go either way.
Jake: I agree with your point of the Canterbury Tales being amusing and something that the students can connect to. If you are obligated to read a book then it might as well be one that makes you laugh and teaches you a lesson as well. if you are forced to read a book that you can't in any way connect to then it was just a waste of time and you shouldn't have bothered picking up the book in the first place.
ReplyDeleteMonica: I can see where youre coming from when you say that the language is too hard to understand and that's the main obstacle in this book. If it were done in a more modern version then it would be even better because the reader would be able to understand and make their own opinion up without the need for a translation.
ReplyDeleteJustin: I defiantly agree with you. I believe your point of having to analyze the text to find Chaucer's true meaning is one of the main reasons why we read this book in high school. We are older, more mature and should have developed a deeper way of reading. Us, as students, should not just read for the dirty, “on the surface,” part of his writing, but the hidden message in his words.
ReplyDeleteI think that The Canterbury Tales by Geoffrey Chaucer should not be read by teens, because of some values stated within the text. Although, Chaucer sends some good points through the text, there are just too many bad ones on the surface, that are very easy for teens to pick up. These bad points are also more likely to stick with them. For example, "Blessed be God that I have wedded five!/ Welcome the Sixth, whenever he appears" (259). This sends a bad message, because this lady is telling about how she has married five times, and is waiting for the sixth. She married these men for the wrong reasons, and that is why it is bad to project that marriage six times is fine, especially when it is for the wrong reasons. This book does have many examples that we could learn from, but a teen is very susceptible to picking up the surface information, and remembering that. Another reason is the strong use of foul language throughout the book, and with all of the garbage on television and in the world today, teens do not need more bad influences, or more ways to ruin their vocabulary with "dirty" words or phrases. This book while excellent for the reader that is able to analyze the true meaning, and take something good from it, is not suitable for the average teen, who could very likely take this book in the wrong way. For these reasons, I feel that The Canterbury Tales should not be read by teens.
ReplyDeleteJean:
ReplyDeleteThough I understand your feelings about the raunchiness and the inappropriateness of Chaucer's Tales, I do however think that those things were not meant to send off positive messages about the wrong morals. When reading about it, we know from the morals that we have that those are the wrong things to do. This is the reason why I think one key to reading this book is the maturity of the reader. Also, I think Chaucer does this because he is trying to mock those circumstances in an obscure way. We did have a discussion in class about the "Pardoner's Tale" were Mrs. Teuber explained that Chaucer was writing about this, partly to ridicule the Catholic Church. However, during that time, questioning the Church's power was a sign of heresy so Chaucer had to find a way to write about it without getting caught/known.
Becky- I agree with what you are saying. It is very true, that Chaucer did not show equality between women and men, and that is a large fault of his. I did not think about that point until you had stated that, and then I realized that it is very prevalent throughout the book. Also, I agree that it should not be read by teens.
ReplyDeleteJack: I conquer with all three of your points. When you say that The Canterbury Tales teaches morals I agree completely. The example you used was a great way to connect and warrant your point. Another example is the moral found in The Pardoners Tale. He tells of a story of three men and the discovery of a large some of money. In the end, all three wind up dead, with none of them being able to use the money. This is the common theme “Greed is the root of all evil.” I also, feel the same about being able to relate to Chaucer’s stories. Some parts of his stories are just experiences that most teens encounter. This is just like you said with the quote from The Miller’s Tale.
ReplyDeleteSam- I agree with what you are saying. I think its a very good point to take in consideration who should read it. There would be a major difference between a high school freshmen in a regular English class, versus a high school senior in an AP class. Small things like this can change whether the book is acceptable, or not, and Sam makes a good point about it.
ReplyDeleteJake: You make a good point when you say that it is easy to understand when you sit down and think about what you are reading and figure out what Chaucer means. I also agree when you say that teens need to learn how to incorporate detail into their writing.
ReplyDelete